topic discussion thus far

[Admin]

I'm going to start this off by just copy/pasting the emails we've sent back and forth thus far here, so that we've got everything.

If we're missing anything or you've got anything to say, just stick it in here.



possible title for the dusk to dawn theme "Insomnia"
other theme ideas: Precipice (like a turning point, or something equally important, or the top of a mountain, you know how ever u wanna do it) Mistakes (character fucks up big time some how or something) Enviroment (not big on that one, but u know, eco friendly is all the rage now) Time Travel (If you want to get a kind of Lost feeling going on) Disaster (could either be about the actaul event, the aftermath, the events leading up to or all 3) America ( meh? patriotism yay! or criticism yay!) just some ideas off the top of my head.

Quoting "Ryan Claytor" <rclaytor@msu.edu>:

>
>
> RE: Caitlin's email.
>
> No, we have not decided on sunset-to-sunrise as a theme. Still just
> discussing it.
>
> I think Caitlin's points are all valid. Let's keep talking.
>
> Ryan Claytor
> Visiting Assistant Professor
> Department of Art and Art History
> Michigan State University
> Email: rclaytor@msu.edu
> Office: UPLA Building Rm# 215 Quoting "Caitlin Parent"
> <caitlin.parent@gmail.com>:
>
>> I totally hit reply and not reply all. Hahaha. Sorry Matt.
>>
>> Hey everyone, sorry I've been kind of absent from the discussion. I
>> hate to slow down the thought process, but are we sticking with the
>> sunset-to-sunrise sort of theme from here on out? If so, I think
>> that's a really interesting connecting thread. I guess my only
>> concern is getting too specific. I think Tyler and Diana were
>> talking about including flashbacks and I feel like laying too many
>> rules down will make the stories seem a little formulaic as someone
>> reads them. I think if we had a looser theme and let everyone
>> decide for themselves how they want to interpret that theme would
>> make the stories more varied and interesting. If we go with the
>> sundown/sunup idea I don't think that means that the theme has to be
>> the most prominent part, a story could just happen to take place
>> during such- and-such a time without making an obvious reference to
>> it. I don't know if any of this helps though.
>> On May 11, 2009, at 5:46 PM, dyematth@msu.edu wrote:
>>
>>> I'm good with having flashbacks in the comics. I'm not too crazy
>>> about the title "After Hours" though. I'm not really sure why. I
>>> think i'd prefer something like "sundown" or "before dawn" or
>>> "nightfall". I'm just spewing things out right now, just trying to
>>> get more random titles floating around.
>>>



***

I actually unwilling to completely dismiss "After Hours" as a title-- I really don't get the sleezy feel at all. I can understand where that's coming from, but, if we stick with the night theme, I suggest we keep it as an option.

Quoting "Ryan Claytor" <rclaytor@msu.edu>:

>
>
> I whole-heartedly agree with Matt's sentiments on the titles.
> "After hours" just sounds way to sleezy. Makes me think of
> "gentlemen's clubs" or the playboy channel or something.
>
> Ryan Claytor
> Visiting Assistant Professor
> Department of Art and Art History
> Michigan State University
> Email: rclaytor@msu.edu
> Office: UPLA Building Rm# 215 Quoting dyematth@msu.edu:
>
>> I'm good with having flashbacks in the comics. I'm not too crazy
>> about the title "After Hours" though. I'm not really sure why. I
>> think i'd prefer something like "sundown" or "before dawn" or
>> "nightfall". I'm just spewing things out right now, just trying to
>> get more random titles floating around.
>>
>> Quoting sparksel@msu.edu:
>>
>>> If we do end up going from the 'dusk 'till dawn' thing, "After Hours"
>>> does tickle my fancy. It's definitely got some adult connotations to
>>> it, so if we're aiming for a really wide audience, we might have to
>>> look out for parents screening their kids' purchases (did we decide
>>> on a rating for this? I can't remember), but it also definitely
>>> allows for a wide variety of stories (and the more i think about it,
>>> the more it grows on me.)
>>>
>>> Shuo--hope you're having a good time in China. Don't hate us too much
>>> for filling up your inbox while you were gone
>>>
>>> Quoting busbydia@msu.edu:
>>>
>>>> I have no problem waiting; I just don't want to put this off for too
>>>> long As for a title, how about something like "Before Dawn"? Or
>>>> perhaps "After Hours"?
>>>>
>>>> -Diana
>>>>
>>>> Quoting "Ryan Claytor" <rclaytor@msu.edu>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't mind waiting until Shuo gets back. Diana, I sympathize with
>>>>> you about wanting time to script, but we do have an entire summer to
>>>>> script our stories. Compared to the slave-driver schedule I imposed
>>>>> on you this past semester, that should be ample time. One
>>>>> concern of mine for the Dusk to Dawn theme is, what do we call it?
>>>>> Surely not "From Dusk 'til Dawn." Y'all know about this Tarantino
>>>>> movie, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/6304106017?ie=UTF8&tag=ac-2-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=6304106017
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan Claytor
>>>>> Visiting Assistant Professor
>>>>> Department of Art and Art History
>>>>> Michigan State University
>>>>> Email: rclaytor@msu.edu
>>>>> Office: UPLA Building Rm# 215 Quoting mengelty@msu.edu:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we should wait untill shuo gets back, he is in China for the
>>>>>> week. So he put in his ideas. also with dusk to dawn, would we allow
>>>>>> flashbacks? or strictly only in that 12 hr frame?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~Tyler
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quoting busbydia@msu.edu:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree on the dusk to dawn bit. I'm really fine with anything at
>>>>>>> this point-- would you guys like to call this good so we can start
>>>>>>> scripting? I need to get my ideas rolling!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Diana
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Quoting dyematth@msu.edu:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I really like the dusk to dawn time frame idea. That uses the time
>>>>>>>> limit without making it a lame 24 style thing and its just the right
>>>>>>>> amount of vague. Anything can happen from dusk to dawn!
>>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Quoting "Ryan Claytor" <rclaytor@msu.edu>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Keep this dialogue going, guys. I'm glad we're suggesting
>>>>>>>>> new ideas
>>>>>>>>> and weighing in on others. Don't stop don't stop!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan Claytor
>>>>>>>>> Visiting Assistant Professor
>>>>>>>>> Department of Art and Art History
>>>>>>>>> Michigan State University
>>>>>>>>> Email: rclaytor@msu.edu
>>>>>>>>> Office: UPLA Building Rm# 215 Quoting mengelty@msu.edu:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, i was thinking the 24 thing, might seem like we r just copying
>>>>>>>>>> a popular idea. Although it would be cool, if we did from dusk to
>>>>>>>>>> dawn we could use the time theme without having to have like
>>>>>>>>>> a clock,
>>>>>>>>>> just show the sky changing, start at dusk end at dawn. I can
>>>>>>>>>> see many
>>>>>>>>>> vampire-esque stories coming from that, although i am all
>>>>>>>>>> for secrets
>>>>>>>>>> as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Quoting dyematth@msu.edu:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea Ryan suggested about occuring in 12
>>>>>>>>>>> hours when
>>>>>>>>>>> he was talking about the Night theme. I think that would be
>>>>>>>>>>> a really
>>>>>>>>>>> cool theme. Even if it wasn't just during the night, having a time
>>>>>>>>>>> limit would be a cool idea. As long as we don't make it
>>>>>>>>>>> seem like a
>>>>>>>>>>> rip off of 24 or something.
>>>>>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting "Ryan Claytor" <rclaytor@msu.edu>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Top o' the mornin' Comics Independent Studies Lads and Lassies,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks to Beth, Matt, and Tyler for starting this dialogue of
>>>>>>>>>>>> possible themes for our Anthology. I thought I'd chime in
>>>>>>>>>>>> with a bit
>>>>>>>>>>>> of feedback on each suggestion in hopes of furthering this
>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>> and perhaps prodding the silent ones to weigh in with their
>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here goes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Music (Unless you can come up with a unique spin, this one's
>>>>>>>>>>>> already been done. Quite recently, in fact:
>>>>>>>>>>>> HTTP://WWW.POSEURINK.COM/SIDEB/)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Alternate Reality (I'm trying to think of different ways to word
>>>>>>>>>>>> this so that it might still have a focus on place, but not
>>>>>>>>>>>> be wed to
>>>>>>>>>>>> a different universe. World Building, Establishing Shot, Habitat,
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc? Y'all throw out some other suggestions or feedback on these.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Revisit Chapter 5 in your McCloud book for inspiration.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Secret (Intriguing...everyone wants to know a secret. We would,
>>>>>>>>>>>> however, want to distinguish ourselves from well-known
>>>>>>>>>>>> projects like
>>>>>>>>>>>> this: HTTP://TINYURL.COM/ORSK2R)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Redemption (Pretty broad. Might be a good seed for
>>>>>>>>>>>> stories about
>>>>>>>>>>>> rescue or atonement. For some reason it makes me think of
>>>>>>>>>>>> religious
>>>>>>>>>>>> connotations: HTTP://WWW.NEWADVENT.ORG/CATHEN/12677D.HTM It could
>>>>>>>>>>>> just be my baggage, but it might be more difficult to
>>>>>>>>>>>> market a book
>>>>>>>>>>>> people think has a religious slant.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Revelation (Epiphany, Disclosure, Prophecy. Again, as a title,
>>>>>>>>>>>> this one has a tinge of religion in it. Trying to think of
>>>>>>>>>>>> synonyms
>>>>>>>>>>>> that might have broader appeal.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Retribution (retaliation, vengence, or revenge. Sounds
>>>>>>>>>>>> kinda harsh
>>>>>>>>>>>> at first, but I can think of ways to spin this other than your
>>>>>>>>>>>> typical eye-for-an-eye story.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Coming of age (loss of innocence, transitional periods,
>>>>>>>>>>>> well-suited
>>>>>>>>>>>> for autobio)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Dawn (Could have metaphoric implications)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Night (Same as above. Or you could take it literally and
>>>>>>>>>>>> have your
>>>>>>>>>>>> story play-out in 12 hours or less.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's get this dialogue going, guys. We've heard from less
>>>>>>>>>>>> than half
>>>>>>>>>>>> the class on this. I want to know EVERYONE's opinion. Let's get
>>>>>>>>>>>> this nailed down. So far, I think my vote might be cast for
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Secret:
>>>>>>>>>>>> A Comics Anthology." It's a title that would pull me in
>>>>>>>>>>>> and make me
>>>>>>>>>>>> curious. I think everyone could spin some interesting
>>>>>>>>>>>> stories from
>>>>>>>>>>>> this too. But that's just my opinion. I want to hear yours. YOU
>>>>>>>>>>>> are going to be the ones creating stories based on our theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking forward to hearing back from everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Claytor
>>>>>>>>>>>> Visiting Assistant Professor
>>>>>>>>>>>> Department of Art and Art History
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michigan State University
>>>>>>>>>>>> Email: rclaytor@msu.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: UPLA Building Rm# 215 Quoting mengelty@msu.edu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternate reality is interesting, although i feel like that may
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclude any stories set in reality and any way to explain
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an alternate reality (ex: saying its an alternate timeline of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 60's or something) might seem like a bit of a cop out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Music is an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting idea, would be cool to see how everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorprates it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How about Secret? or, throwing some basic ideas, redemption,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> revelation, retribution, coming of age, dawn, night?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~Tyler
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting dyematth@msu.edu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternate Reality sounds like it could get pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly think vague is the way to go, or at least
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be incorporated into any story without too much effort. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it would be kind of cool to incorporate something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necesarily effect the theme of anyone's comic but would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be included. Like, the ocean or something big like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that. Anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else think that would be interesting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting "Amber Scharf" <amber.scharf@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could certainly play with the alternate reality idea. How
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about "Other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> World: An Anthology" or something? I can also agree with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything vague will work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 11:11 PM, <busbydia@msu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Music might be really interesting to work with! Might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I suggest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality as a possible theme? I'm kind of pulling that out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "you know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where," but I agree with Tyler in that the theme should be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extremely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible for interpretation. I'm really up for anything at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting sparksel@msu.edu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > We talked about this a little bit at the print
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committee meeting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > (since Amber and I had been throwing ideas around anyway),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and so I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > thought we should kick this thing around in here for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little while.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Ideas thus far:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > -Music
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > -Book (which I thought would be an amusing title for a book,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but Ryan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > thought might be a little uninformative, so maybe the cover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > something like "Book: An Anthology" or "Anthology: a Book")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Anyone got any other thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > ~Beth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[TheTeach]

Hi All,

First of all, thanks to Beth for setting this up. I don't mind hopping over to forum mode. I'd like to hear from everyone just to make sure they are alright with this too.

Regarding themes, I really like "Loose Ends" as another suggestion. It's "loose" enough to encompass just about everything. You could refer to wrapping up loose ends, or have open ended stories. I looked it up on Amazon, and there's not a lot of high-profile competition with that title either.

Thoughts?

Ryan Claytor
Visiting Assistant Professor
Department of Art and Art History
Michigan State University
Email: rclaytor@msu.edu
Office: SOON TO BE SWITCHING TO RCAH!!!

[Diana]

I actually found that I like Beth's suggestion of "home." I think that it's something very audience-friendly. However, I'd really like to stay away from things that might be too political in nature because I don't want our book to be taken as a sermon. While "environment" is really similar to "home," I think that choosing a different title would be wise. We can still work with environmental issues, but I feel that if we label it as environmental that we risk scaring potential readers away. I wouldn't mind going with a theme like "time," though I do agree that "time-travel" might be a little too specific. Here are a couple more themes that I can muster: senses, knowledge (which could possibly tie to "secrets" if you so choose), and sanctuary.

PS: I love you, Beth, for setting up this forum

[Matt D]

I still like our Dawn to Dusk idea a lot and I'd be willing to work with that. My other favorite topics that were suggested recently were luck of the draw and disaster. Both of those could be taken in a variety of directions. I think luck is a great theme because luck could play a pivotal part in any story. I think that would be interesting. Anyone?

[Diana]

The only thing that worries me slightly about "luck" is that it almost crosses the beliefs line, which may scare some people away. Luck ties to fate, which doesn't sit well with many religious groups. Also, I think luck is a little too tied to the "cause-effect" type of script. I don't know-- our class is smart, and maybe they'll work around it? I agree though that the dusk to dawn idea is still my favorite.

[Admin]

I agree that the Dawn to Dusk idea is still something to hold on to as a serious consideration.

I worry about Luck of the Draw just because all that's popping into my head when I hear that are old west cowboy type stories, which, eh, not exciting for me. But if it works for other folks, I'd be happy to work with it

[Diana]

I've been checking So far as I know, we're in the exact same place that we were when we were emailing. I think that Dusk through Dawn is still our favorite idea, but, other than that, not much has happened.

[Admin]

Sounds like Diana's got it right as far as the themes go.

With the publishing, it's a little harder to say. A lot of the quotes I was getting back were a lot higher than what we were expecting, and from an email that Ryan sent around, it sounds like they were a lot higher than what he was expecting as well. I sent my spreadsheet of the few quotes I got back (I think of the 20 or so requests I sent out, I got maybe eight back, and two companies flat out refused, so....not good) to Ryan a while ago, but I haven't heard back from him. Can't speak for Amber and Austin, of course.

Going back to theme for a moment: have we heard anything from Shuo? It kind of seemed like that was who we were waiting for for a little while.

[Tyler]

that is kind of concerning to hear about the higher costs. How much higher are we talking? unreasonably? And shuo is fine with the dusk to dawn theme

[Admin]

I think the cheapest price that I got back was on the order of four times what we were expecting. I don't know for certain at the moment, though, because my spreadsheet is on the computer that my mother is currently monopolizing 9_9 What can possibly be so interesting about a game called 'farkle' I will never know.

[Diana]

The price bit is definitely concerning. While I hate to be the stink bug, what alternatives do we have if the printing is too much?

[Admin]

That's something I wish we could ask Ryan, but he's in Africa right now, yeah? Hopefully not getting eaten by lions

If it was up to me, my mind would either run to putting it on one of those self publishing websites, which, if we find a good one, seem pretty reasonable, or there's always the possibility (narrow, narrow possibility) of finding an actual publisher willing to print and distribute the book (though I doubt that that particular hunt would be wrapped up within the confines of the semester, if it even happened at all, so I hesitate to put it out there)

I know people want to get scripting, so I'm going to send around an email (because it kind of seems like not everyone is keeping up to date on things on here) to see if everyone is cool with the 'dusk to dawn' idea as a theme, and hopefully we can get rolling.

[Diana]

I'm definitely fine with the dusk to dawn idea (I've already formatting a rough idea ), and we'll figure something out. That is, unless Ryan has indeed been consumed by a lion, in which case we probably won't be making much of a book after all

[Sponsored content]